The Palestine Papers
Meeting Summary: Saeb Erekat and Liz Dibble

The parties discuss developments in and issues around: elections, Gaza Disengagement, media campaigns and upcoming bipartisan meetings.

Last Updated:

Meeting Notes:

 

May 4, 2005

 

Dr. Saeb Erekat, Habib Hazzan

Liz Dibble, David Pearce, Jim Bever, Marc Melenger

 

The meeting was very informal and it was not possible to take notes while in the meeting so I highlight the main issues discussed. The interesting part happened when David Welch called during the meeting and passed few question to SE through David Pearce.

 

Elections:  

 

SE updated about the election law debate, proportional vs. personal system. Abu Mazen?s attempt to send the bill back to the PLC. The US side was interested to know the end result ? would the elections happen on time?

 

Gaza Disengagement:  

 

Liz Dibble have seen the NSU presentation in the US and heard about it. David Pearce and Jim Bever showed interest in the presentation and SE volunteered the NSU to do the presentation to a combined team of USAID and US consulate staff sometime next week. HH will coordinate with Jim Bever.  

 

Saeb repeated what he said to Welch. There is no “soft landing” prepared for the day after evacuation.  We are repeating all the mistakes of Gaza Jericho agreement, doing what is possible instead of what is needed. Solving the simple cosmetic issues and avoiding the bigger issues. This approach exploded in our faces before and it will again in Gaza. No one knows what is the fate of Rafah terminal, of the airport and the port. The issue of access ? to Israel to the rest of the World to Egypt is not dealt with. The issue of the day after scenario on the political front is also kept aside. 3rd further redeployment? 2nd disengagement? Permanent Status Negotiations? No one knows and no one is taking an initiative on it.

 

IF we do not do anything we have a period of high Jewish holidays in September and October. Then November it is budget season in Israel and the struggle between Bibi and Sharon will start and then we expect earlier election and in election year there is no diplomacy.  2005 and also 2006 will be wasted. Then, the big question: Would Abu Mazen survive all this period when nothing has changed and no political horizon is offered though negotiations?  No.

 

The US must push for a soft landing after Gaza, clarity to manage the high expectations on the Palestinian side and more push on Israel to change many things it declared it will not change regarding Gaza.

 

Liz Dibble responded that Wolfenhson thinking has evolved since he arrived. He realizes now that a series of small changes will not deliver a grand economic recovery. He knows changes must be linked to action on the tough issues. He trusts Nigel Roberts and Nigel contributed to the change of thinking. And frankly, he not a person that fails in delivering.

 

David Pearce told Saeb that he has a conservative analysis of what is happening and that the changes might be more far reaching. To this SE replied that the parameters of the Disengagement Plan have been approved by the government and Knesset and if they are to be changed Sharon has legally to go back to the government and maybe also the Knesset. This is the last thing Sharon wants to do because he then might be forced to go to Elections.

 

I then read from the government decision of June 6, 2006 and explained that what we heard so far on coordination concentrated on assets. The feeling is that the Israelis changed their own decision about dismantling the houses and are now trying to get out of this corner through coordination with us to avoid the cost associated with the destruction, with moving the rubble etc. The third party involvement beyond paying for projects is not clear.

 

I asked Jim Bever to let us know if he knows anything about US involvement in passages that we do not know, since our impression is that Israel wants a third party a US company only to work with Israel instead of the Palestinians in the joint crossing points but that Israel will not trust a third party company or entity, even US party, to monitor the port or airport or international crossing points granting access between Gaza and the rest of the world.

 

Jim Bever said that so far I am right but he thinks there is still place to change these issues and involve a third party in more than one way.

 

The US team then started urging us to put a positive spin on Gaza and not escalate the rhetoric. They urged us to take what is there as a first step ? the first time a piece of Palestine will be without Israeli presence etc. since 1967. Take it and make it a start.

 

Liz Dibble was very affirmative that the US will not let Gaza be first and last.

 

To this SE replied that his NSU team has been working to make Gaza Disengagement an opportunity since December 2003. He has all the desire in the world to make it positive and a success but he does not want any part in any work that leads to turning Gaza into the largest prison in the mankind history with 1,300,000 inmates.

 

I then gave the example of Sharm el Sheikh ? it was less that perfect and a lot of the difficult issues were not dealt with or sidelined to a committee. Abu Mazen however, wanted us to be positive and make it work ?also as a first step. “Take it and make it a start in confidence building”. The result? Israel changed its position and retracted from its agreements on every issue that was discussed in Sharm El Sheikh, the roadblocks around cities, city handover, the prisoners, the fugitives and deportees, the rules of engagement. The Palestinian people then gave Abu Mazen credit since he was just taken over but this credit will expire soon and by July 17th it will run out. People voted for him on hopes and promises but will vote for July elections on performance and delivery. How can you put a positive spin on the Wall? on E-1 ? on the settlement expansion and house demolitions?

 

Then the US team went on to tell us that we are not doing enough to publicize the reform and security reform we are doing. Abu Mazen should do more pres conferences when he makes such decisions and should concentrate on Israeli and foreign media coverage.

 

They pleaded with us to tell Abu Mazen that he must appoint a press secretary and he must deal with media seriously, press conferences, editorial board meeting. They asked who is doing his media while in the US? What are we doing for his trip to the US? They urged us ? begged us- to tell Abu Mazen to deal with media more seriously to make the job of State mush easier in DC whether it is for political initiatives State is willing to support and also for economic and financial support USAID is working towards.

 

Media Media Media ….

 

David Welch called and presented the following questions to SE through David Pearce:

 

  1.  What is happening with the Sharm process?
  2.  What is the significance of Mofaz statement that Israel is freezing the city handover until fugitives surrender their arms?
  3.  What is happening with fugitives issues?
  4.  What happened regarding the release of Hamas militants arrested by the PA for Kassam rockets? Egyptian interference?
  5.  Rasheed Abu Shebak statements about no disarmament of Militants.

 

SE: I was informed that all fugitives in Jericho that signed the agreement  are without weapons Same thing will happen in Tul Karem. When I verify this I will communicate it to the Israelis and the US and then hopefully we can resume the city handover and the second stages of Jericho and Tul Karem handover ? removal of the rest of the checkpoints. So far the prisoners committee and the Fugitives committee will meet next week. Prisoners committee; on Sunday.

 

The fugitives issue ? like we explained to Welch before there was no agreement to surrender the arms but to have them under Control and Custody. However, the end result today is that they have no weapons.

 

Regarding the release, the PA arrested 2 and then two more and all were questioned and they verified that two of the arrested were not involved and were released. There was a statement by an Aid to Nasser Yousif that Egypt pressured for their release which I have no clue where it came from. I no of no Egyptian involvement on this issue.

 

David Pearce What are you doing with the other two? Arrested and now what? Can you put them on trial? is there a judicial system to handle this? Abu Mazen needs to establish this system publish a decree to allow imprisonment etc.

 

To this I replied that Abu Mazen can not push for the rule of law and then bypass the PLC though criminal law legislation called decrees. The law is there and the law enforcement authorities should be reinforced to uphold the laws but there is no need for draconic decrees that bypass the PLC.

 

Then we discussed Abu Mazen schedule for the next month.

 

May 7th to May 19th Trip to Japan, China, Chile, Brazil etc.

After that meeting with Sharon

After that US trip.

 

Liz Dibble seemed very surprised that he is going to be away from the country for almost two weeks and that he delayed his US trip because of these countries. “It does not look good” and noted that Sharon is in DC on the 24th of May for AIPAC conference.